2013 Chevrolet Spark at Barrett-Jackson

[AR2]

Originally Posted by XDCX

That's good news - whenever I see a G8 driving around it reminds me of what a great car it was and how sad it was to see GM kill-off the Pontiac brand. I know Bob Lutz wanted to keep Pontiac as a niche brand, something akin to an American version of BMW, but the Task Force wouldn't allow it.

Another death in the name of shared-sacrifice.

I see a lot of Pontiac G8s around here. It seems like the owners really like them. It is too bad GM killed them off along with the Pontiac brand. To me, the G8 was the kind of car the Pontiac brand needed all these years. Unfortunately, it appears the car didn't sell very well brand new, but is doing well on the used market.

This is what gets me about GM (and Ford). They had these rwd sedans for years, and then just jumped out of that market. They had the market practically cornered all these years and then they just left. Personally, I would merge the Impala program with the SS program and introduce a rwd/awd Impala with V-6 and V-8 power. This would allow the Malibu to grow a bit (I read that it is a bit tight inside) and offer a V-6 to do battle with the Camry, Accord, Altima, etc... Instead, Chevrolet has the Malibu with 4 cylinder (turbo) power only, its stretched-platform mate the Impala, and now the SS. Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems like too many sedans in that part of the sedan market. It reminds me of Chrysler's strategy in the 80s with the Dodge Aries/Dodge 600/Dodge Diplomat and the Plymouth Reliant/Plymouth Caravelle/Plymouth Gran Fury. The 600 and Caravelle were just stretched versions of the K-cars and offered a slightly bigger, more powerful 4 cylinder (2.5). At the top was the V-8 powered, rwd Diplomat/Gran Fury. Eventually, Chrysler streamlined its lineup and merged the Aries and 600 into the Spirit and the Reliant and Caravelle into the Acclaim. That was a move that made sense. Is GM (and Ford) turning to the old Chrysler Corporation for inspiration or am I just out of it?

Maybe GM (and Ford) are too scared of the upcoming CAFE ratings and aren't even interested in offering rwd sedans for the mainstream brands. Maybe there isn't much of a market, I don't know.

[tnpartsguy]

Originally Posted by mr4t60e

The new Impala will be based on the Super Epsilon II platform that will be shared with the upcoming Caddy XTS. GM has indeed imported rebadged Holdens for police use under the Caprice nameplate but those are restricted to law enforcement sales only.

The problem is, they left the shifter in the floor. Cops won't buy floor shift cars, they need the room to mount laptops, ect. Police departments are avoiding the Caprice PPV in droves. Doesn't matter how fuel efficent it is, without the workroom needed, it's a no-sale.

[XDCX]

Originally Posted by tnpartsguy

The problem is, they left the shifter in the floor. Cops won't buy floor shift cars, they need the room to mount laptops, ect. Police departments are avoiding the Caprice PPV in droves. Doesn't matter how fuel efficent it is, without the workroom needed, it's a no-sale.

I was thinking of this post when I saw a few 2011 Caprices listed for sale on Ebay. I know GM initially didn't want the vehicles sold to the public but the ones that are for sale on Ebay don't look like they've ever been exposed to the abuse that police vehicles are subject to.

Concerning the floor mounted shifter, I agree that's probably a "deal breaker" for almost every police agency. When I looked at the pictures on Ebay I noticed that the Caprice has the power window controls in the center console too. I bet GM figured it would be too hard to eliminate the center console since they'd have to create new door panels, switches, wiring harnesses, etc.

[XDCX]

Originally Posted by AR2

Maybe GM (and Ford) are too scared of the upcoming CAFE ratings and aren't even interested in offering rwd sedans for the mainstream brands. Maybe there isn't much of a market, I don't know.

I think all of the OEMs are concerned about the upcoming CAFE demands and the uncertainty associated with fuel prices. As I recall, even the base engine on the next Cadillac is going to be a four cylinder - who would have ever thought that would happen with a brand that once boasted about having a 500 CID V8?

I know when GM and Chrysler were going through their bankruptcies they had to agree to CAFE mandates that may prove to be very difficult to hit - time will tell.

I have heard some car enthusiasts say that "these are the good old days" and we'll be looking back on today much in the same way people looked back to the '68 - '70 era in 1974 when the government and insurance companies effectively killed off all of the muscle cars. (As a side note, 1974 was also the year Ford launched the Mustang II - the absolute low water mark for performance car enthusiasts.)