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Old 09-24-2015, 12:02 PM   #121
57years
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P.S. "Just Compensation" is not a viable cause of action unless the signature on the Contract was induced by fraud.
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Old 09-25-2015, 09:31 AM   #122
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XDCX is correct. No GM dealer received any funds for anything but "wind down" money. No parts inventory, no blue sky. "Wind Down" funds calculation by GM were never identified, but upon dealer calculation, they boiled down to 14 months rent. If the dealer filed for arbitration, GM generally offered some pittance to keep from going to Arbitrator, but EVERY legal document had an NO SUE clause, Dealer had to sign.
I highlighted your "Dealer had to sign" portion of your quote because I think you correctly identify the reality that the GM OLDCO Dealers faced.

Essentially the GM OLDCO Dealers didn't have any choice but to sign the Wind Down Agreement. Sure, there are some GM Dealers who didn't sign the Wind Down Agreement but they are a very small minority.

The fact that the vast majority of the GM OLDCO Dealers signed the Wind Down Agreement doesn't, in my opinion, signal that they agreed with the agreement just that they knew they didn't have any other choice.

Sadly, GM's bankruptcy provided GM with substantial power and placed them in a position where they could dictate the terms of any agreement with their OLDCO Dealers.

Clearly I'm not a lawyer or any type of expert but I wonder if the GM OLDCO Dealers who signed the Wind Down Agreement could ever be included in the lawsuit against the Treasury arguing that they were forced to give up their rights to sue and GM had the power to dictate the terms of any agreement they ultimately signed.
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Old 09-29-2015, 11:05 AM   #123
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"...but I wonder if the GM OLDCO Dealers who signed the Wind Down Agreement could ever be included in the lawsuit against the Treasury arguing that they were forced to give up their rights to sue and GM had the power to dictate the terms of any agreement they ultimately signed. "

No, they did have a choice...sign and get wind down cash, do not sign and get what the Chrysler dealers did....

There was no coercion by GM...yes, or no...one choice. That is why the dealers who did not sign were so few, only those who were offered miniscule wind down funds even thought of not signing, i.e.., those who carried no debt to banks on their books or personal assets, and those who simultaneously, had little rent factor shown on the books, so the wind down was nothing but a slap in the face!
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:19 AM   #124
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No, they did have a choice...sign and get wind down cash, do not sign and get what the Chrysler dealers did....

There was no coercion by GM...yes, or no...one choice. That is why the dealers who did not sign were so few, only those who were offered miniscule wind down funds even thought of not signing, i.e.., those who carried no debt to banks on their books or personal assets, and those who simultaneously, had little rent factor shown on the books, so the wind down was nothing but a slap in the face!
I do know that the GM OLDCO Dealers who did not sign GM's Agreement and accept the Wind Down money were able to be part of the lawsuit against the Treasury. As you mention, the number is low because the vast majority of the GM OLDCO Dealers elected to accept the terms of the Wind Down Agreement.

As before, I'm not an attorney or an expert but I wonder if it can be argued that the GM OLDCO Dealers who did sign the Wind Down Agreement were forced to accept a provision not to sue the Treasury because GM had 100% of the negotiating power?

It would be no different than the situations where the Government sues companies like Microsoft and Google because they add provisions to their contracts that the opposing party cannot reject because Microsoft and Google have so much market power.
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Old 09-30-2015, 03:18 PM   #125
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Yes, what you refer to is a "contract of adhesion." I have heard, without any research, of only one case where a GM dealer won a case VS GM using this tactic. I would think the Attorneys might want to jump in here.
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:37 PM   #126
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Default Press Release from Bellavia Blatt & Crossett

Here's a Press Release from Bellavia Blatt & Crossett concerning the lawsuit against the U.S. Treasury that was published by F&I Magazine - click here
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:42 PM   #127
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Yes, what you refer to is a "contract of adhesion." I have heard, without any research, of only one case where a GM dealer won a case VS GM using this tactic. I would think the Attorneys might want to jump in here.
Thanks for the post.

I will make Mr. Bellavia aware of your post and ask if he can share his insight. (He may not be in a position to comment on possible litigants outside of his current clients so please don't be concerned if he chooses not to respond.)
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:56 AM   #128
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Here's a Press Release from Bellavia Blatt & Crossett concerning the lawsuit against the U.S. Treasury that was published by F&I Magazine - click here
You know its great to see things moving along but its been 6 years and 5 months since some of us got our "thanks but no thanks" letter. The President that was behind the Auto Task Force is almost out of office after two terms, and a judge finally decides that this was wrong? During depositions I'm sure most of the major players in the whole thing will not be able to remember what happened (it was a long time ago, you know) even though it would be fun to watch them squirm.

As far as settling out of court, would the freedom of information act allow those payments to be kept secret?

Even I am getting a little tired of all of it, and I NEVER thought I would say that. Then again every May 13th I will get revved up again.

Seems we have less and less of the posters that were around 6 years ago. Oh they still pop in once in a while but nothing like before. To bad, very smart guys.
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Old 10-14-2015, 03:22 PM   #129
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You know its great to see things moving along but its been 6 years and 5 months since some of us got our "thanks but no thanks" letter. The President that was behind the Auto Task Force is almost out of office after two terms, and a judge finally decides that this was wrong? During depositions I'm sure most of the major players in the whole thing will not be able to remember what happened (it was a long time ago, you know) even though it would be fun to watch them squirm.

As far as settling out of court, would the freedom of information act allow those payments to be kept secret?

Even I am getting a little tired of all of it, and I NEVER thought I would say that. Then again every May 13th I will get revved up again.
I'm inclined to agree.

The process has been so long and drawn out that I think the topic ends up being one that fades away as a result of apathy and fatigue.

Clearly this is an example of "Justice delayed is justice denied."

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Seems we have less and less of the posters that were around 6 years ago. Oh they still pop in once in a while but nothing like before. To bad, very smart guys.
I think a big part of the forum's decline in activity is on me - I haven't done anything to promote the forum in years and I haven't added as much content as I used to.

I still think there's a need for a website like DealershipForum but that's a discussion for another thread...
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:49 AM   #130
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I think some of the guys just want to HEAL. They do not want to be reminded of the pain caused them. Steve is expressing both the exasperation and the tiredness in his post. My hate continues to run deep, but I know my wife is starting to roll her eyes when I remind a stranger of how I, (and we) was screwed.
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:13 AM   #131
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I was discussing what happened to the Chrysler and GM dealers with a customer yesterday...he had brought up the credit crunch back in 2008 and I explained what had taken place in the car industry as a result. He was amazed and shocked. He said "I've never heard anything about that" , and asked "how could I have missed all that going on?" I told him hardly anyone that wasn't involved in it knew... because the media never reported it and it was never really talked about on the news. Such a shame there wasn't ever really any public outcry over US citizens having their private businesses destroyed and/or stolen from them by OUR OWN government and our "business partners" in Detroit.
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:40 PM   #132
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We are still out here sitting in the trees. You'd be surprised where some of us wound up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_biegler View Post
You know its great to see things moving along but its been 6 years and 5 months since some of us got our "thanks but no thanks" letter. The President that was behind the Auto Task Force is almost out of office after two terms, and a judge finally decides that this was wrong? During depositions I'm sure most of the major players in the whole thing will not be able to remember what happened (it was a long time ago, you know) even though it would be fun to watch them squirm.

As far as settling out of court, would the freedom of information act allow those payments to be kept secret?

Even I am getting a little tired of all of it, and I NEVER thought I would say that. Then again every May 13th I will get revved up again.

Seems we have less and less of the posters that were around 6 years ago. Oh they still pop in once in a while but nothing like before. To bad, very smart guys.
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:16 PM   #133
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We are still out here sitting in the trees. You'd be surprised where some of us wound up.
LOL, yep we sure are.
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Old 10-19-2015, 06:54 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by 57years View Post
I think some of the guys just want to HEAL. They do not want to be reminded of the pain caused them. Steve is expressing both the exasperation and the tiredness in his post. My hate continues to run deep, but I know my wife is starting to roll her eyes when I remind a stranger of how I, (and we) was screwed.
You know the similarities that we share are amazing. My wife is starting to do the same thing, and that's something I also didn't think would happen.
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Old 10-19-2015, 07:03 AM   #135
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We are still out here sitting in the trees. You'd be surprised where some of us wound up.
To all you guys that are still around and to the ones that are not, NOTHING would surprise me. Chrysler and GM got rid of some of the smartest "Car Guys" around and kept lots of bean counters that will drop them as fast as they dropped us the next time the S**T hits the fan. And I hope they do. Most of the 789 stuck with them through tough times and the loyalty didn't go both ways when it counted.

Oh well you all have heard my rant before. I just miss some of my FORUM friends that I have gotten to know on a limited basis, but the integrity of these people somehow seems lost in the current business climate.
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