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Old 05-22-2013, 01:57 PM   #1
XDCX
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Default Is Chrysler forcing their dealers to buy a $5,000 A/C Machine for the 2014 Cherokee?

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Originally Posted by conn02 View Post
More concerned with the $5000 A/C machine (essential tool) we received last week for our Cherokee that hasn't even started production yet!
I broke the above quote from another thread that was discussing Chrysler's wiADVISOR because I thought the topic was worthy of its own thread.

Is Chrysler forcing their dealers to buy a $5,000 A/C Machine for the 2014 Cherokee?

If so, what does a $5,000 A/C Machine do to warrant its high price and what new technology does the 2014 Cherokee have that necessitates a new A/C machine?

I understand the need for Special Tools but I wonder why the new machine has to be so expensive.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:40 PM   #2
mr4t60e
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R1234yf refrigerant. Chrysler dealers aren't the only ones getting screwed over
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:56 AM   #3
jayhawk
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its over 5,000, its not needed, and i believe in the cover letter it referred to chrysler as receiving " credit " for us having the machines. gee, thanks. the same week we were sent /billed for, a 700 tool to address endless u connect technology problems that we are responsible to fix. thanks again.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:18 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by mr4t60e View Post
R1234yf refrigerant. Chrysler dealers aren't the only ones getting screwed over
Interesting - thanks for the information.

I did some digging and found that R1234yf is pretty controversial and the requirements for its use are definitely coming from Europe. Here a link to a SAE report that provides more information - click here

It's my understanding that R1234yf represents a huge reduction in the "Global Warming Potential" of automotive refrigerants but it's also very expensive and may ignite in certain collisions. Daimler is reportedly fighting the implementation of R1234yf and there are apparently other OEMs that are still studying the issue.

On the flip-side, GM has already started to use R1234yf on some 2013 vehicles sold in the U.S.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:24 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by jayhawk View Post
...and i believe in the cover letter it referred to chrysler as receiving " credit " for us having the machines. gee, thanks.
Based on the report I linked in the above thread it appears the U.S. EPA is giving OEMs a substantial credit to their CAFE rating if an OEM uses a refrigerant like R1234yf that has a low "Global Warming Potential."

I'm guessing that's the credit Chrysler's cover letter was making reference to.

To your point, however, I agree that $5,000+ is a lot to pay for an A/C machine that's not currently required by U.S. law and uses a refrigerant that's still somewhat controversial.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:18 AM   #6
chryslersrt8
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i remember when the LH platforms hit in 1992. We got stuck getting the R134A freon machine before the first LH hit. It sat in the tool room for about 2 years before the evaporator cores started leaking (oops...I meant to say that we finally had need to use the machine). Up until then the only time we used it was for local body shops that needed to recharge systems not only for Chrysler products. You might suggest your service or parts managers contact local body shops and let them know you have the machine. It only helps the bottom line.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDCX View Post
To your point, however, I agree that $5,000+ is a lot to pay for an A/C machine that's not currently required by U.S. law and uses a refrigerant that's still somewhat controversial.
BUT...from the manufacturer's viewpoint:

1. WE get CAFE credits from our government partners
2. may or may not actually ever be needed if it turns out there's a problem with r1234yf
3. but so what...it's no cost to us...we'll make the dealers fund it
4. hold on a sec...new profit center...costs us $2500 wholesale?...let's bill them $5000...we get credit, cover our asses, and make money off the dealers...life is good!!

Aside from that, there's still the whole fallacy of the "recycling center machines"...90+% of the time there is no recycling...whatever type of refrigerant is used, it's already gone into the atmosphere before the vehicle comes in. People don't come in asking for their freon to be changed...they come in because it's leaked out and "it ain't cooling". In relation to the total amount of a/c work done, the amount of refrigerant "recovered" is miniscule.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:41 PM   #8
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I was out on vacation and they snuck one of these machines into the shop. Hope they are happy with it since we are still using a 12 year old O/S on the PC's in the shop!
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chryslersrt8 View Post
i remember when the LH platforms hit in 1992. We got stuck getting the R134A freon machine before the first LH hit. It sat in the tool room for about 2 years before the evaporator cores started leaking (oops...I meant to say that we finally had need to use the machine).
I remember those days.....

I think the failed AC evaporators in the LH and ZJ vehicles played a major role in shaping Chrysler's image in the 90s as an OEM that built vehicles with great styling but marginal quality. I also remember the evaporators that Mopar was providing for repairs were just as bad as the ones that were used in production - that just added "insult to injury" when the repair needed to be performed again a couple of years later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chryslersrt8 View Post
Up until then the only time we used it was for local body shops that needed to recharge systems not only for Chrysler products. You might suggest your service or parts managers contact local body shops and let them know you have the machine. It only helps the bottom line.
That's a great idea.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DealerEx View Post
BUT...from the manufacturer's viewpoint:

1. WE get CAFE credits from our government partners
2. may or may not actually ever be needed if it turns out there's a problem with r1234yf
3. but so what...it's no cost to us...we'll make the dealers fund it
4. hold on a sec...new profit center...costs us $2500 wholesale?...let's bill them $5000...we get credit, cover our asses, and make money off the dealers...life is good!!
You make some excellent points - thanks for another great post.

My bet, for what it's worth, is the use of R1234YF in the 2014 Cherokee is an indication of how much of the vehicle's DNA comes from Fiat. Fiat's already using the Cherokee's platform in Europe and they're using R1234YF to comply with European standards. If the 2014 Cherokee had been derived from Jeep DNA I doubt it would be using a new (controversial) refrigerant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DealerEx View Post
Aside from that, there's still the whole fallacy of the "recycling center machines"...90+% of the time there is no recycling...whatever type of refrigerant is used, it's already gone into the atmosphere before the vehicle comes in. People don't come in asking for their freon to be changed...they come in because it's leaked out and "it ain't cooling". In relation to the total amount of a/c work done, the amount of refrigerant "recovered" is miniscule.
Excellent point.

It's like reading a Craigslist ad where the seller indicates the A/C on a vehicle isn't working but all it needs is to be re-charged. There's a reason the refrigerant is gone and until the leak is fixed it will always need to be recharged.
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