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Old 07-01-2009, 04:19 AM   #16
possum
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I didn't notice any support. The BEST support I received was from the Texas Auto Dealers Assoc, and they are strong!
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Old 07-01-2009, 11:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by XDCX View Post
I totally agree on both counts.

In fact, I'm surprised that someone like CARFAX hasn't developed a VIN based program that values a used car based on equipment and recent auction prices.
It's called FirstLook.

www.firstlook.biz

Lithia uses it for used inventory management and valuation.
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:47 AM   #18
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It's called FirstLook.

www.firstlook.biz

Lithia uses it for used inventory management and valuation.
Thanks for the link - that's the first time I've heard of the company or their service.

I'll study their site when I get back to my office. Based on my quick review it seems pretty cool.
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Old 07-03-2009, 12:10 PM   #19
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I am getting ready to share some of these comments regarding this topic to Automotive News so any other NADA views that you may have please post them. I heard that NADA is making there presence at auctions so they understand that they are under the scrutinity of the dealers. The fact that they do not have any transperency in what they do to get there values needs to be changed for the good of all. The NADA values hurt everyone except NADA when you think about it; less auto's sold, less loans given, less cash flow for dealers because of bank requirements on inventories, less new car sold because trade in values and all this in a rotten economy! With NADA transperency everyone will do better and NADA is staring to react so lets keep the pressure on!
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Old 07-03-2009, 03:51 PM   #20
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Sold a used 2008 Dodge Grand Caravan SE yesterday. NADA values: wholesale 11,825, Loan 11,625, 11,825 Trade & 15,300 Retail. We paid 15k (this week) & sold it for 18k. Fortunately we financed it w/ CUDL a credit union that does 120% of retail. Our banks top out @ 120% of trade in this case a deal breaking 4,400 diff. How can NADA wholesale be 23% off for 3,800 diff.?
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:36 AM   #21
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NADA is losing credability daily. They have no power over anything, just a dues collector.
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:29 AM   #22
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With NADA transperency everyone will do better and NADA is staring to react so lets keep the pressure on!
I applaud you for your efforts. There's no question that the NADA values do not represent reality and it has a negative impact on both dealers and customers.

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Sold a used 2008 Dodge Grand Caravan SE yesterday. NADA values: wholesale 11,825, Loan 11,625, 11,825 Trade & 15,300 Retail. We paid 15k (this week) & sold it for 18k. Fortunately we financed it w/ CUDL a credit union that does 120% of retail. Our banks top out @ 120% of trade in this case a deal breaking 4,400 diff. How can NADA wholesale be 23% off for 3,800 diff.?
That's a great example.

I'm glad you found a credit union that would advance 120% of retail. I've got to bet there are a lot of customers out there who want to buy a used vehicle that are frozen out of the market due to the inaccurate NADA figures.
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:31 AM   #23
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NADA is losing credability daily. They have no power over anything, just a dues collector.
Sadly, I agree.

When you think about the dues they collect it's sad that they haven't done a better job for the dealers. I wonder where all the money goes?
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:44 PM   #24
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NADA has just put up a HOTLINE to the editor, let him know what you think about the values of there book! Dealer just talked with the editor so he will call you back lets trade notes!
Ask for the hotline 800-544-6232
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Old 07-11-2009, 12:17 PM   #25
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The Dealer got a call back from the NADA editor and here are some of the tidbits from the conversation:
1. Regarding NADA values
A. NADA is aware that there values are way off what vehicles are bringing at auction.
B. NADA thinks the amount that the vehicles are bringing is invalid, because they are inflated with the New dealers switching there mind set from New to Used.
c. Basically he thinks all dealers are clueless if they are going to pay current auction prices and most of the vehicles will be back at auction in a few months. (NADA will be able to say I told you so with Banks and customer using NADA values for Loans and pricing so good job NADA I hope you are proud of yourself!)
2. Nada values come from 2 sources 1. JD Powers and a second source he would not discuss, pressed to see if values in any way come from dealers and the answer was No they use to survey dealers but stopped because they did not get enough data from dealers.
3. He mentioned Hummer for example and said no bank should advance Retail value the customer should have skin in the game in case gas prices go back up.(I am sure Hummer dealers love to here that! Also why would he care what the Banks want?) We exampled Ford F150's bringing 2K over Nada retail as well and the dealers are again paying to much!(You know what they say people who cannot do something teach it obviously with the number #1 seller nationally he doesn't understand dealers don't make a profit unless they actually sell something and so on and so forth!)
4. Was very Bank oriented and Supply and Demand does not count!! NADA is looking out for ????? My conclusion is they are attached to the hip with the banks and the banks are
using NADA as a puppet! No transperency of how they get values, Supply and Demand has no weight and NADA could care less about the consumer, dealers and themselves as long as there puppeteer is happy!!

He did say Nada values will go up about 2-300 in Aug. but they went down the same amount in July? That's called the Puppeteer throwing the dealers a bone!

We are getting ready to start are NADA book burning and will post it on Youtube!! Any other dealers would like to participate message me and we will coordinate a country wide burning and we will get the media involved to help us in the cause. The cause is simple Supply and Demand determine prices not uknown entities controlling a supposedly unbias supplier of vehicle values, we want TRANSPERENCY!
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Old 07-12-2009, 11:56 AM   #26
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Here is some comments from Automotive News readers after reading this article, see if these comments are simular to the thread!

Used-car prices rise for bad reasons -- Manheim

And here's the link to that article incase you haven't read it.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...73326373452201

BRIAN_FERRIS wrote:
The only way to value any commodity with any degree of certainty is to look at a good cross-section of real-time market transactions; including all applicable value attributes.

DCJ_R wrote:
NADA needs to go wayside, they haven't a clue anymore. I just use Manheim live averages and add $3,000. When we start not renewing subscriptions it will be to late for NADA.

Keith_Hanson wrote:
Shawn Brown had a good comment. I just shook my head when I looked at the July NADA used car guide. Auction prices have been $2000-$4000 higher than NADA on the later model stuff. Where in the hell are they getting their data? It looks like the guide I have trusted for over 30 years is obsolete!

SHAWN_BROWN wrote:
This is something we all saw comming!But why is the NADA official used car guide book month in and month out lowering book values, (trade and retail)????? While the Black Book prices rise?
Paper guides could be out-of-date even before they are printed.

MARK wrote:
HELLOW USED CARS NEED TO GO UP IN VALUE, THEY YOU MIGHT GET SOME PEOPLE TO TRADE THERE USED CAR FOR A NEW ONE, WITH HIGHT USED CARE VALUS MORE PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO BUY-BUY NEW CARS.......
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Old 07-12-2009, 04:12 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by pma7129514 View Post

MARK wrote:
HELLOW USED CARS NEED TO GO UP IN VALUE, THEY YOU MIGHT GET SOME PEOPLE TO TRADE THERE USED CAR FOR A NEW ONE, WITH HIGHT USED CARE VALUS MORE PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO BUY-BUY NEW CARS.......

Why isn't this guy my competition?

Last edited by Granch; 07-13-2009 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:24 AM   #28
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Why isn't this guy my competition?
LOL....your comment made me think of my Dad. Years ago, when he would see someone doing or saying something really stupid, he would sort of roll his eyes and say "I wonder why he's not working for me?" He had some real characters working for him at times.
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Old 07-14-2009, 05:34 PM   #29
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pma - Thanks for keeping this thread updated.

I really appreciate your re-cap of the conversation your dealer had with a NADA representative. It seems like the NADA is more concerned about the relationship they have with the banks than they are with the relationship they have with their members.

I'm a "path of least resistance" kind of guy. I'm thinking it may be easier for the dealers to convince the banks to use a better used car evaluation tool than it would be to change the NADA.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:30 AM   #30
possum
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The Banks need an excuse to cover their backside. They can fall back on the NADA values when things go bad down the road, or to explain themselves to the real bankers.
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