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Old 07-25-2009, 07:47 AM   #31
pma7129514
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Looks like NADA has thrown us a bone(And believe me I appreciate the bone) and the values on some Trucks and SUV's are up $1000.00 in next months guide. Thanks NADA for trying to get a little closer to the market. We have seen Kelley Blue Book 3-$5000 higher values over NADA and this helps with the retail customer showing NADA values are out of touch with the current market, but we still have the banks to deal with. It is a shame when you have to make and excuse for NADA and inform the retail customer that they collect there dues and they could really care less about the dealer or the customer with fair values or at least transparency in how they obtain there info so everyone can judge for themselves if NADA is fair. Again take 10 minutes of your time and call the NADA hotline and express your views and ask them we want transparency from NADA. Call Automotive News as well and say all we want to know is how, when and where these NADA values are obtained, transparency is not a bad thing it should be a given. Now some of the NADA retail values are only $1000 off of what the auctions are bringing (Yes, NADA Retail a $1000 less than wholesale without auction fees, reconditioning and profit).. I would like NADA to go to a dealership and tell a retail customer why his unbias book shows a retail value that is $4000 less than what the dealer is asking. Let the NADA editor tell that customer like he told us the dealers that are buying at current prices won't sell them, the dealer will send them back to auction because they paid to much, or tell that Hummer buyer that a bank shouldn't finance you unless you put a bunch of money down in case gas goes up again. I guess NADA is worried the bank might have a lien against a vehicle that has some water in it. If that's the case NADA should be changed to NABA (National Automotive Bank Assc.). If you are not proactive by making a few phone calls to NADA or Automotive News U are a enabler for NADA. When U look at your P & L, when you hear a salesman trying to overcome a NADA value to a customer or when a deal gets slashed because of those NADA values just look in the mirror on why. Good luck and maybe some tough love will help us get this job done, Thanks.

NADA Hotline 800-544-6232 and ask for the Editor's Hotline
When you make that call pass it along to another dealer that might not read this.

When if ever have U seen anyone from NADA at your dealership? 30 years for me and the answer is ZERO.(I use to fillout a NADA value sheet but NADA stopped that, NADA editor said not enough dealers responded back, give me a break!
How often does NADA values affect you? In the last 30 years I would say several times a day! If you drink a Soda daily at least you can read ingredents inside on the can!
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Old 07-25-2009, 10:02 AM   #32
crowe
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Amen!
Wholesale/Trade-in values should be based on auction average values for the region.
Retail values should be based on actual transaction prices. The price of every used vehicle sold at retail is reported to the state’s DMV for tax purposes. Surely this data is accessible.
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:30 AM   #33
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Firstlook uses NADA (problem) Kelley Blue Book (problem) and two different auction reports. No need for this program. Sign-up and use Manheim at no cost.
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:34 AM   #34
robsnotes4u
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It is about time the dealerships get together and sue the various books for their practices. The lawsuit should be for loss of income. It is ridiculous. When a person purchase a new house does the bank finance that house bases on a value from a book the bank has or do they go to a professional (outside) appraiser? They go the a professional appraiser. The automotive loan should be the same. WE are the professionals. Get rid of the books. These people are just bottom feeders living off our lively hood. It is time for us to put our foot down.
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:15 AM   #35
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robsnotes4u - First post - Welcome to DealershipForum.com

While I understand your frustration, the thought of the dealers getting together to sue the NADA made me smile - it's ironic that an organization which should be putting their members first can draw such contempt.

There's no question that the days of the "book" are numbered - the only question at this point is who is going to be the major player when the industry adopts an electronic "real time" format. Manheim has a great product - maybe that will become the new benchmark?

My hope is once the economy recovers and credit becomes available again one of the major banks will take the first step and stop using NADA and Kelley.
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:43 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robsnotes4u View Post
Firstlook uses NADA (problem) Kelley Blue Book (problem) and two different auction reports. No need for this program. Sign-up and use Manheim at no cost.
We started to use Manheim about 1 1/2 yrs ago and it has saved our butt. This idea came when we hired a Used Car Mgr that was very familular with it.
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Old 08-07-2009, 12:01 PM   #37
pma7129514
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Now that clunkers are going to continue for a while we can look to see what others are saying about NADA. These comments are from Automotives News article; Used-car prices rise for bad reasons -- Manheim http://www.autonews.com/article/2009...NA05/907079983

DCJ_R wrote:
NADA needs to go wayside, they haven't a clue anymore. I just use Manheim live averages and add $3,000. When we start not renewing subscriptions it will be to late for NADA.

Keith_Hanson wrote:
Shawn Brown had a good comment. I just shook my head when I looked at the July NADA used car guide. Auction prices have been $2000-$4000 higher than NADA on the later model stuff. Where in the hell are they getting their data? It looks like the guide I have trusted for over 30 years is obsolete!

bowtie man wrote:
I reported this in another article.
This is good it gives the current owner a reason to trade up.
The market is the market, Do you think normal is a being able to buy a used vehicle for 50% off retail after 1 year ie;sebring, impala etc.
This is the way it use to be before the rental company programs.
Nothing wrong with this, it'll be great for the consumer and the dealer, Banks might have to step up.

SHAWN_BROWN wrote:
This is something we all saw comming!But why is the NADA official used car guide book month in and month out lowering book values, (trade and retail)????? While the Black Book prices rise?
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Old 08-08-2009, 09:51 AM   #38
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pma - thanks for keeping this thread updated.

As I've mentioned before, I don't think the dealers will have much luck trying to change the NADA's valuation system. My bet is this division of NADA is a "cash cow" and they don't want to make any changes which may scare off the banks.

I think it's more likely the banks will drop NADA once the credit markets free-up again. I think one of the major banks will start using Manheim or some other "real time" valuation model in an effort to gain market share. Once that happens all the other players will follow the same course and the NADA Book will die a lingering death.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:51 AM   #39
pma7129514
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Here's some post from the another dealer forum thread!

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Great topic.

Let's not forget their unrealistic NADA Book values which actually make it harder for their dealers to sell and finance vehicles.

08-12-2009, 01:54 PM #2
possum
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I can assure you we will NOT re-new NADA.

Txflyer
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Posts: 292 Will you re-up your NADA membership next year?

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At this point I'm leaning toward not joining next time dues come up. I can't think of a single thing they've done for the dealers during the last year. Let's see:

1. Dealership closures by Chrysler and GM - nothing.

2. Getting the govt to do something about the CARS program not funding within the allotted 10 days - nothing

3. Asking dealers to contribute $3000 for legal defense during the GM/Chrysler bankruptcy in which the dealer's got NOTHING in return.

I'm sure that there are some others that I'm missing. Starting to think that NADA isn't an acronym, it's a Spanish translation of the word NOTHING.

The only problem is if the banks are using NADA and working in blind is not a feasible option! More power will come when we all demand NADA to get there act together!
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pma7129514 View Post
The only problem is if the banks are using NADA and working in blind is not a feasible option! More power will come when we all demand NADA to get there act together!
Now I'm wondering if the NADA's been reading the Forum....

I just noticed the NADA is looking for an Executive Market Analyst to run their Used Car Valuation Guide - click here Maybe they've heard that the dealers are not too happy with their current track record of accuracy?

That said, I guess I wasn't too surprised when I read the job description and found the NADA values statistical modeling and analysis a lot more than they do retail experience.
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Old 09-08-2009, 01:41 PM   #41
pma7129514
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Looks like Black Book taking a shot at NADA!!
From the new Sept 7, 2009 Black Book guide under Market Matters segment!!

"Due to the fact that Black Book has always had reporters attending local auctions throughout the country, and we publish values daily, we are able to report changes in the market as they happen. Now, as always, it is important to be sure that you have the latest edition of Black Book. You need to know what the market is today, not what it was several weeks ago or what someone thinks that will be in the future.

Note to other dealers: I have been contacted by some suprisingly powerfull people over this thread, post your comments and any facts regarding the NADA issues!!
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:20 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pma7129514 View Post
Note to other dealers: I have been contacted by some suprisingly powerfull people over this thread, post your comments and any facts regarding the NADA issues!!
That's great - I like the fact that Black Book is taking a shot at the NADA.

Concerning this thread, I'm not surprised that you've been contacted by some powerful people. Based on the IP addresses that access this site I know that some of the OEMs, the media, the banks and the auctions all visit on occasion.

As a note to the rest of our members, if the NADA valuations are making it more difficult for you to sell or finance vehicles for your customers - post an example. The more active this thread becomes the greater the likelihood that it will help force the NADA to re-evaluate its valuation calculations.
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Old 09-09-2009, 04:13 PM   #43
oldjeep
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LQQK NADA
07 Pacifica AWD 27k Signature Touring maxed out with every option, basically a Ltd

NADA wholesale 15000
Auction prices in the 19's
an 08 Ltd went through Manheim Philly (Hatfield) for 22800 yesterday

Try to get 20k bought plus taxes even with a 780 score.
I got lender to use Black book and it was 16800 and he stretched.

It is bad enough to operate in a down economy but when your own Auto Ass'n is against you it does not make any sense.

Last edited by oldjeep; 09-09-2009 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Hit enter button by mistake
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:37 AM   #44
pma7129514
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Old jeep, that is exactly the issue at hand, NADA values are used as benchmarks for most banks! And what NADA values are must be correct (Ya Right), and if I was a banker I would think that to be a fact!

Here's a example on a F150(The best selling vehicle in the nation), and as a dealer you don't have to keep F150's in stock or you can just wing it with the banks and the customers!

2006 F150 SuperCrew short bed 4x4 leather Lariat:

Kelley Blue book Excellent condition current value $27,030
After Auction fees, drivers fee and reconditioning cost, our cost is $22,785.00
Well we would like to cover our cost for selling a vehicle and that is $2000.00 per Unit
Then we like to make a profit? But lets stick with covering cost for now!

We need to sell this vehicle for $24785 to break even!

Nada Values:
Sept. 09
Clean trade Loan Retail
$19325 $17450 $23375
Aug 09
Clean trade Loan Retail
$19250 $17375 $23300
July 09
Clean trade Loan Retail
$19175 $17300 $22400

The Kelley Blue Book Value might have seen out of whack at first but when you really look at how much it cost a dealer to sell a vehicle between fixed expenses of a dealership and the variable costs of the sales side $2000 to sell a vehicle doesnt have alot of fat in it.



Note, as I mentioned before NADA has made some adjustment in this case raising the Retail value bye a $1000 over the last 3 months so good for them on that part, but they are part of the SILENT KILLER for Auto Dealers. Valuesare not correct and are not
even based on what would deemed fair and reasonable and without transperency!


You can look up the last 3 months of NADA values if you have the NADA bookout desktop program just change your dates!
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:12 AM   #45
Granch
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even at 120% your screwed...
I signed on Valley National Bank about 3 weeks ago.
They stick to prime paper, but unlike most banks the go off Nada Retail instead of trade.

might want to look into them
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