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Old 05-13-2020, 06:58 AM   #1
steve_biegler
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Default 11 years past.

Well, if there is anyone left out there from a decade ago you might remember this day. The day the letter was drafted and mailed to 789 Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep dealers informing them they wouldn't "Go Forward" with the "New" corporation.

I'm going to guess that there won't be as much as a byline in Automotive News. Really sad. I wonder how many lives this effected? Actually I probably don't want to know. More pain than I can imagine. 11 years and I still can't let it go.

So as I have done in years past I will toast the 789 with my favorite Crown Royal on the rocks. I invite you to join me at 9PM central time with your favorite beverage in a toast to all the dealers and employees that lost their lives work 11 years ago, and those that have moved on and those of us that can't.

Unfortunately The Forum isn't as busy as it was back then. I invite you to look back at the posts from that era and feel the concern and hurt. Hard to believe it ever occurred.

To all my friends here, Hope all is well. Miss you guys.
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Old 05-13-2020, 10:11 PM   #2
DealerEx
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There are those of us who will always remember. The 789, and those like myself, that had gotten out shortly before and knew that we would have been in that group too if we had still been in business. We watched our longtime friends have their businesses stolen from them for no reason, at the whim of incompetent and crooked zone and regional managers. Then they had to stand by and watch as THEIR businesses - that had been built by them, and in some cases generations of a family, were given to other favored dealers for nothing. I will never forget and never forgive those responsible.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:51 PM   #3
possum
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11 Years? Hard to believe, hard to think of what all we had to do, and hard to remember the pain that ripped thru the "789". I still remember the call that had come just before, asking us to "help" our corporate "partner", and to order up inventory. I did survive it, but I'll never be the same, or forget.
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Old 06-27-2020, 06:23 AM   #4
The StraightShooter
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We are still out there
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Old 07-06-2020, 02:57 PM   #5
srt
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Default 11 years

Somewhere in everyday there are reminders of this painful event.The lack of justice may be the reason I have a difficult time with this. I have moved on but not without those thoughts.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:18 AM   #6
possum
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I see where Chrysler has been sold again, to a new "partner". Every company in the world gets a turn with our "girl". She just keeps putting out.
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Old 07-20-2020, 11:57 AM   #7
steve_biegler
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No wonder she got so good at screwing people.
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Old 08-17-2020, 07:41 PM   #8
AR2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by possum View Post
I see where Chrysler has been sold again, to a new "partner". Every company in the world gets a turn with our "girl". She just keeps putting out.
It's been a while, but I see the news has made it here as well. It is FCA merging with PSA (Peugeot) to form Stellantis! The headquarters will be in Amsterdam, Netherlands and the board will consist of 11 members - 6 from PSA and 5 from FCA. The CEO will be Carlos Tavares (from PSA) and the Chairman will be John Elkann (from FCA).

There will be 14 brands under the Stellantis umbrella and we will most likely see the return of the Peugeot brand to the United States in a couple of years. More information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellantis

Get ready for STELLANTIS!
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Old 08-18-2020, 12:23 PM   #9
mr4t60e
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Stellantis sounds like something you'd catch from eating undercooked seafood
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Old 08-25-2020, 04:30 AM   #10
steve_biegler
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Maybe FCA will require a freestanding showroom for Peugeot like they did for Fiat? Wouldn't surprise me at all. The stupidity never ends.
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Old 08-29-2020, 02:31 PM   #11
AR2
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Originally Posted by mr4t60e View Post
Stellantis sounds like something you'd catch from eating undercooked seafood
That's been the running joke on the Internet ever since the name was revealed. That or it sounds like a pharmaceutical drug.

To me, this is just a name conceived by two European companies that are tripping all over themselves to show the world what a perfect 50:50 merger looks like. Theoretically, no one party is taking over the other, but we know eventually somebody takes over in time. My belief is that PSA (Peugeot) will be the party eventually running things.

In the end, I don't see the Stellantis name lasting in the long run. There is just something about the name that gives me pause. But, nobody knows the future.... What we do know is that in a few more months, the entity known as FCA will no longer exist. FCA will have come and gone all within a 6 year timeframe.
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Old 08-29-2020, 02:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_biegler View Post
Maybe FCA will require a freestanding showroom for Peugeot like they did for Fiat? Wouldn't surprise me at all. The stupidity never ends.
From what I've read, FCA will not have anything to say about the re-introduction of Peugeot to the American market. As of 2019, Peugeot has said it plans to bring its nameplate to the US market with or without the merger with FCA. The plan was to re-launch Peugeot in 2026, but with the FCA merger, the plan has moved forward to 2023. Unless something has changed, Peugeot will start importing small number of Peugeots to about 15 American states and grow from there. From what I've read, Peugeot will not use any FCA factories to build Peugeots and will instead build them all in France. There is also Peugeot USA which is led by Peugeot U.S. CEO Larry Dominique, so it sounds to me like Peugeot will be running its own ship.

Of course, ANY of this could change now that the merger is moving forward, but I get this sneaky suspicion that the Peugeot brand will move on its own regardless of how much synergy there exists between FCA and PSA. Will the Peugeot nameplate be more successful in the U.S. than the absolute disaster that is today's Fiat? Hard to say... We'll see I guess.
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Old 08-29-2020, 05:06 PM   #13
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If it wasn't for Jeep and Ram truck sales they'd be out of business in the US already. The passenger car business is dying rapidly and the entries they have in that segment are pitiful. The Fiat 500 is a piece of junk with a terrible reputation. The Chrysler Brand is reduced to the 300 and the Pacifica. The 200 was a dog with poor quality and a throw away powertrain. The 300 was a good car, but it's a 15 year old platform with with very few changes from the 2005 models. The minivan market is pretty much dead in the water, also having been taken over by compact and midsized SUVs. The Dodge brand has the Challenger and Charger that sell, but the Caravan and Journey have very poor resale value and low volume. Since the "Merger of Equals" with Daimler the once great Chrysler Corp of the late 80's under Iacocca has steadily gone downhill. Trucks and Jeeps are it's only salvation--until Fiat and Peugeot screw that up too. Just stop and think about that -- in what world would a combination of Fiat and Peugeot ever be viewed as capable of restoring the company to greatness.
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Old 10-08-2020, 06:54 PM   #14
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-- in what world would a combination of Fiat and Peugeot ever be viewed as capable of restoring the company to greatness.[/QUOTE]

Truer words were never said.
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Old 10-10-2020, 08:37 PM   #15
AR2
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Originally Posted by DealerEx View Post
If it wasn't for Jeep and Ram truck sales they'd be out of business in the US already. The passenger car business is dying rapidly and the entries they have in that segment are pitiful. The Fiat 500 is a piece of junk with a terrible reputation. The Chrysler Brand is reduced to the 300 and the Pacifica. The 200 was a dog with poor quality and a throw away powertrain. The 300 was a good car, but it's a 15 year old platform with with very few changes from the 2005 models. The minivan market is pretty much dead in the water, also having been taken over by compact and midsized SUVs. The Dodge brand has the Challenger and Charger that sell, but the Caravan and Journey have very poor resale value and low volume. Since the "Merger of Equals" with Daimler the once great Chrysler Corp of the late 80's under Iacocca has steadily gone downhill. Trucks and Jeeps are it's only salvation--until Fiat and Peugeot screw that up too. Just stop and think about that -- in what world would a combination of Fiat and Peugeot ever be viewed as capable of restoring the company to greatness.
I apologize for not responding sooner. Work has been very busy over the last few months, but things have quieted down a bit. But, I have been thinking of your post ever since I read it.

You are correct that Jeep and Ram are keeping the whole enterprise afloat. That is why they have been getting the priority of investment and models.

Fiat is a lost cause in this country and a total failure, but nobody in the media is saying a word about it. I looked at the YTD sales figures a few days ago and I thought it was impossible to have a 50% decrease from practically nothing. Yet, Fiat has managed to sell 52.18% fewer vehicles so far this year compared to last year (3,569 vs. 7,464)! Fiat might be lucky to get over 5,000 vehicles sold for ALL of 2020. Wasn't this the brand that Sergio promised would sell 50,000 units annually and eventually grow to 100,000 annual sales? Wasn't this the brand American consumers were screaming to come over to the United States because everybody wanted one?

As for Alfa Romeo, I don't know what to think. It has a mixed reputation. When magazines received their first test models, they all kinds of quality problems with them, but the vehicles performed great (when working). Since then, I have not heard much about quality problems, but the sales numbers don't reflect hot products either. Is Alfa Romeo's reputation permanently stained? Is Alfa ever going to be relevant against the Germans in this market? But, FCA (soon to be Stellantis) will throw euro after euro to grow this brand in the hopes that it will some day dominate the Germans. We'll see how that works.

When it comes to Chrysler, is the brand even relevant in the American market place? Does anybody even care about it? The Chrysler website shows Chrysler consists of 4 vehicles - Chrysler Pacifica, Chrysler Pacifica hybrid, Chrysler Voyager, and the Chrysler 300. The 300 is in total freefall (I think it may sell 15,000 units for all of 2020) and the Pacifica is not the number 1 selling retail minivan (Honda Odyssey). I will go on to say that the Pacifica is nowhere near as successful as the original Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyager, but it isn't a bad vehicle. So, why change the names? So, the question becomes, what is Chrysler exactly? How will Stellantis position this brand?

Finally, Dodge is nothing more than the Vin Diesel of the automotive world. What used to be one of the top 5 selling brands in the country is now something like 15th or 16th behind VW, Mercedes, with Mazda nipping at its heels. With the loss of the Caravan and Journey earlier this year, I have to wonder what Dodge sales will look like next year. Can Dodge hold off Mazda from out selling it next year?

To answer your final question, in what world would Fiat and Peugeot be seen as saviors to the once great Chrysler Corp.? I'm afraid to say the media, the Mopar community, dealership community, etc... Yes, Stellantis is being promoted as the second coming with the Fiat and Peugeot family having majority control over the company.
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